Muslims Voices

Muslim Voices

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94 Responses to “Muslims Voices”

  1. Greg P says:

    Unknown:

    Jesus IS God! When Jesus walked the earth He was BOTH God and man. He had to become man so that He could take on the sins of the world and destroy them by His death and resurrection. He even took on your sins, Unknown!

    Ya know, that name, Unknown, is a good name for you because that is exactly what you are in the eyes of God….. Unknown. Why? Because you deny Jesus Christ as the Savior and follow a false god!

  2. Patrick says:

    I thought your God knows everyone and everything they will ever do…

  3. Greg P says:

    Matthew 7:21-23,”Not everyone who says to me ‘Lord Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never you. Away from Me you evildoers’.

    Patrick:

    You’re right. He does know “everyone and every thing they will ever do”. He EVEN knows what you just wrote, as you try to trip me up. He knows who you are, but, He does not know you as one of His own.

    You said that you grew up in the Lutheran church. You must have been absent the day your minister spoke to the congregation about the above verses.

  4. Delta says:

    Greg P there is a very famous quote i think you should hear.
    There is only one true God, but smart men know him by many names.
    How is it fair for you to yell at ‘unknown’ that his religion is false and idolterous and claim that yours is the only true one when you do not know as much as he does? In both the Holy Qu’ran and the Bible God tells his people that he is God of all. The God of the Jews, The God of the Gentiles, The God of the Muslims. Do you know what the word Islam means? Submission to Gods will. It would be prudent of you as a devout man of Christ to not condemn this man you think is following the wrong religion, but do as Jesus did and try to talk to him and show him your point of view, but do not forget to listen as he talks to you as well. It is only from learning from each other we may come to understanding and grace.

  5. Greg P says:

    Delta:

    You sound like a very caring and accepting person and those are good qualities. But, if you are a Christian, and I do not know if you are or not, then you would realize why I attacked “unknown’s” comments.

    He starts off saying “Jesus is not god”. Right then I knew he was wrong! Jesus IS God. He came down to earth as a man, but, still had His divine nature. The Bible says that there is only One God and He gave His only Son, Jesus Christ, as a sacrifice to take on the sin of the world. BUT, only those who put their faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross and ask Christ for forgiveness are forgiven and saved and belong to the True God.

    John 6:44, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.” Those were Christ’s words. Delta, there are a myriad of other references I could quote also.

    I stand by my statement that “unknown’s” beliefs are wrong and false. My God is not the “God of the Muslims”. My God will gladly welcome a Muslim that comes to Jesus Christ in forgiveness and trusts Christ for salvation. But, then that person would not be a muslim anymore, would he.

    Jesus Christ wants all people to come to Him; Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. But, they must all embrace and acknowledge the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to be saved. It is that simple. Whether you want to believe it or not. It’s not me speaking, it is the Word of God saying this.

    The reason that I said Unknown is not known by God is because Unknown does not embrace Jesus Christ as the Savior. Unknown CAN know Christ as Savior because Christ will gladly accept him, but, that is a decision only Unknown can make for himself.

    Delta, I’m sorry if you don’t agree with my explanation here, but, I am speaking the truth. There is only one true God and His Son is Jesus Christ. And Christ is our ONLY hope for salvation.

    One final word. I do not condemn anyone, Unknown or anyone else. I would love to see Unknown come to salvation in Jesus Christ. But, as long as he says that Jesus is not God, I cannot help but speak up in defense of Christ.

  6. ken says:

    I just cant wait for the holy war to end all this trash. Yes God has many names but God is the one that died on the cross for everyone. The real war will start when that Dome comes down during one the Israel defensive attacks on those thugs aka terrorists. Call it what you want but History has always shown aggression, captivity and prosperity. I thank God sometimes for the price of progress. Wonder who wins in the end. Jesus…

  7. Delta says:

    Greg your reliance on the Bible as a source of strength is almost stifiling; admirable yes, but also quite stifiling. I would like to ask where it was you were born but over the internet i think it might be a tad inappropriate, but i would however guess that it was probably the US, UK, or another ‘western’ culture. Take a moment to think what would have happened if you were born in another place and another time… you would be speaking quite differently now i would think. and Greg, do you know who it is that composited and circulated the first copies of the Bible we use today?
    Also if i may take a moment i would like to disagree with one of your theories earlier-

    “My God will gladly welcome a Muslim that comes to Jesus Christ in forgiveness and trusts Christ for salvation. But, then that person would not be a muslim anymore, would he.”

    If you take the word muslim from its language of origin than yes, that man would still be a muslim- He would still be one who submits to the will of God. He may not worship in Islam anymore but that does not change his nature. I must beg that you try to take a moment and see this conversation through another mans eyes… you will gain a new picutre of life. As a last question i would like to ask which religion specificly you worship in, i.e. lutheren, christian, roman catholic…

  8. Delta says:

    P.S. God said by the river of Jesus that “this is my son with whom i am well pleased” yes? Did Jesus not also say that we are all children of the Heavenly Father? Every last man women and child?

  9. Greg P says:

    Yes, Delta, I was born in the U.S. and have lived here all my life, with the exception of military service which was spent in Asia. I have seen how other cultures live and I have experienced people worshipping in Buddhist shrines. I currently live in the suburbs of a major U.S. city and interact with Muslims on a daily basis. There are a few mosques within 10 miles of my home, although, I live in what is considered a Christian environment. I am not naive at all when it comes to awareness of the many cultures and belief systems in my country. There are also a few Hindu temples within 10-15 miles of my home and I interact with people from India on a daily basis also … and, please let me clarify, I’m not talking about interacting in a Dunkin’ Donuts with these people either. I talk to these people as business associates and clients and friends. I interact with people every day from different cultures. I treat them as I treat anyone else … like people. I said all this to let you know that I do not live in a cocoon surrounded by Christians whispering Bible verses into my ear all day.

    I do not consider the Bible stifling at all! It is the book by which Christians are to live by. It is the Word of God, it is God speaking to His children. As far as my “religion” is concerned, I don’t belong to a particular denomination. I attend a Bible church and consider myself an evangelical Christian. My faith is centered around belief in the Word of God and Jesus Christ as the one and only Savior.

    I respect your deep belief in your faith and I would like to see you spend eternity in heaven also Delta. Did Jesus say that we are ALL children of the heavenly Father? Not exactly. We are all God’s creation, but, only those that are “born again” are called children of God.

    John 1:12, “Yet to all who received him, to those who believe in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.” John is speaking about Jesus in this passage, Delta.

    John 3:18, “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”

    I don’t know how to put it more plainly, Delta. I will pray for you and I pray that you will come to know Jesus Christ as your Savior. He is our ONLY hope for salvation. God bless you Delta.

  10. Delta says:

    Greg it is good to know that you are a man of the world. Please, i think you misinterperated me, i did not mean to suggest that you live a sheltered life so confined to association of only a few. I might ask another question if i may, where you raised with a christian upbringing? this is what i ment to state, since you were born (if in fact you were) in such a setting and that is all you have known your life than it is why you are strong in that particular faith. If however you had been born say in Lebenon, or Syria, or Palestine, or Israel, or any of the myraid other countries across the globe, you may have been just as adament in your belief in a different religion. I myself was born in the United States, was raised fit Roman Catholic, and attended Catholic school for many years with the possibility of even attending seminary school at a later date. But as it seems, God had made other plans for me. and things are as of yet to be determined. and also you misjudged my comment about the Bible, i did not say the Bible it self was stifiling, but your relience, knowledge, and use of it. Admirable and inspiring yes, stifiling none the less, it was not an insult my good man. and lastly i must repose a question i already asked which i am quite eager to hear your take on, i think it will be one of the greatest answers i am to hear on the subject, Do you know the origins of the modern Bible?

  11. Greg P says:

    Delta:

    I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and attended catholic schools for 12 years. I learned the truth about Jesus Christ in 1981 at 30 years of age and left catholicism behind. If I had been born in the Middle East, I more than likely would have been raised in the Islamic faith, BUT, I wasn’t born there. I also wasn’t born in the deepest jungles of Africa, so thankfully, I wasn’t pierced with ornaments in places I’m not supposed to have holes. That is why we have missionaries around the world ….. to TEACH those that have not heard the truth before, because of their birthplace environment.

    I don’t feel any stifling effect at all in my thinking. There has to be an “absolute” in this life, a place to go to get the truth. That place is the Word of God, the Bible. Read on …

    2 Timothy 3:16-17; All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    “Do you know the origins of the modern Bible?” I’m sure this is a trick question, but, I’ll bite. The Bible was written over a period of about 3500 years, culminating in about the year 100AD. It was inspired by God through the power of the Holy Spirit. I’m certain you have a different answer, but, no answer is going to make me change my belief in God’s Word. The Bible is the inerrant Word of God. I study it as best I can and I trust Christ without question.

    “God said, I believe it, and that’s good enough for me.”

    Something tells me this won’t be the end of our conversation, Delta, but, have a wonderful day, my friend my friend.

  12. Patrick says:

    Ok here is my question: God loves all of his creation and wants them to come to know him; correct? If so, why would he ONLY appear to the Jewish people a long time ago, and to no one else. Did he only love the Jewish population? Was it laziness on God’s all powerful behalf that stopped him from “showing himself, and all his glory” to the other populations of the world. Now, one could now argue as to why God sent Christ; to save all our brethren. However, that would mean that God’s divine plan wasn’t so divine after all. If it was divine and all, he would have known to send Christ from the beginning. He realized that human kind wasn’t doing the trick with the whole ‘sin’ thing – and sent Jesus. But that would mean that God have had to realize, a mistake. A God who makes crucial mistakes such as barring off heaven from thousands or millions of people across the globe, doesn’t seem so loving to me. The truth is that unless your ancestors are 100% Jewish, it appears that God had no problem ignoring them as they got shipped off to hell until missionaries came and saved them. (This goes for caucasians too; not just peoples of tan skin – one would have been just as heathen in Ireland, or Germany as the next guy was in Polynesia.) In all honesty, I would appreciate a good answer to either A. why this is. or B. how you would rebuttle this contention, and if its not true, please explain why. Thanks for reading, and no ill will, Patrick Molohon.

  13. Greg P says:

    Patrick:

    I’ll do the best I can to explain it to you, but, if you have a Bible I suggest you open it and start reading. Start with the Gospel of John. If you truly want to learn, you’ll do it.

    God DOES want all His creation to know Him and love Him and come to Him for forgiveness. God also gave us a free will and allows us to make our own decisions. Most of us choose to reject God. As a matter of fact, the Jews rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah. They are still waiting for the Messiah to come and deliver them. The day will soon come when God will reveal Himself to the Jews and they will finally accept Him, but, those will be extremely terrible times in this world. And they ARE coming very soon!

    Why did God pick the Jews as His chosen people? God picked the Jews because they were the most persecuted and most hated people in the known world at that time. (Never let it be said that God takes the easy way). God had compassion for the Jews and he embraced them. The Jews ultimately rejected Christ as their Messiah or Savior and God then opened His gift of salvation to the gentile world.

    God knew from the beginning of creation that man would fall and God did have His plan for salvation already in place, long before the fall of man. The Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, always has been in existence, even at the creation of the world and before.

    God’s divine plan didn’t fail. If it failed, Christians would not be saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. Man failed! God knew man would fail and already had His plan in place from the beginning.

    Patrick, one thing that you fail to realize and so many others fail to realize, is that WE serve God, HE does not serve us. He doesn’t owe us anything. We owe Him everything. He doesn’t keep anyone out of heaven. People keep themselves out of heaven by their stubbornness and their refusal to come to Christ for forgiveness. It is their unforgiven sin that keeps them out of heaven!

    Patrick, I just gave you the Cliff’s Notes version tonight. Maybe Steve can give you a more complete answer later, but, right now it’s very late in the evening. I wanted to get some kind of answer to you before to long because I knew you were online and if you truly want answers, I want to help you now. Who knows, tomorrow may be too late. Christ is coming back very soon for His church and no one should want to be left behind.

  14. Delta says:

    Greg, im insulted lol, you think i would try to trick you. Its always an interesting question i like to ask of devout men of faith when they quote the Bible often. It was assembled by a council of men in the Roman empire sometime in the 1st century. 100 years after Jesus (pbuh) died. The books that went into the Bible were voted apon and many were excluded, books such as, the Gospel According Mary. (Which is actually an excellent book if your looking for additional reading to the Bible, try the egnostic gospels). It has always been a matter of personal contention for me how people can put so much faith in a simple book written about a simple man that is said to be from the mouth of God. It is just something i could never understand…. If Jesus (pbuh) had written the Bible, or written at least one book in the Bible than… it would be much easier for me to see why but i simply cannot place such faith in a book…
    Now Patrick, im very glad you have rejoined the conversation. I read all the posts on this board before i said anything seeing as i may have joined a bit late and i find your insights quite usefull and well thought out. You made some good points as to the use of language and language translations used through out the world in the reading of holy texts. You also made strong arguments about the abrogation of phrases and the use of metaphoric and symbolic language. These are all great points. There was something that was a matter of personal affrontary to me earlier and i wish that i may address “Steve” at this time but since i do not know if he still reads these boards i will clear something up with you. “Steve” used the a quote from the Qu’ran: “Kill Them Wherever You Find Them.” and placed it out of Context. let me explain something. the WHOLE verse is

    “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”

    It means that if a man murders your family and oppresses your people, kill him where you find him, if he makes slaves of your loved ones and will not allow you to worship God, kill him where you find him, if he invades your country and spreads murder rape and plunder than kill him where you find him. It DOES NOT however mean that killing is acceptable. It is used as a last resort to end something that was brought against you by another. The Holy Qu’ran also says that to kill ONE innocent person is to kill ALL OF HUMANITY. Life is sacred and may no life be ended headlessly. It is a despicable thing to kill another. And it is an unforgivable crim to kill another without just cause and due patience. THAT is what the Qu’ran states. THAT is value of life to a true Muslim, TO ANYONE that believes in God, The Father the Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth.

  15. Greg P says:

    Excuse me, Delta, I’d like to correct an error in your last comment. You mentioned that the Bible was assembled by men 100 years after Jesus died. The Bible was assembled by men 100 years after Jesus ROSE from the dead. That little word makes a big difference!

    Also, one more thing. The Bible is not a “simple book about a simple man.” It is the Word of God, and the most important book in history, about Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I just wanted to correct your understatement.

  16. Steve says:

    Delta,
    So once again we come back to the original intent of the cartoon; the lack of a response from the “peaceful” portion of Islam in response to the “violent” portion, who you contend are perverting the laws of your religion.
    I used the “Kill Them Wherever You Find Them” quote out of context to make the point that the “violent” portion of Islam is doing exactly the same thing, and they are getting away with it; seemingly with permission from the so-called “peaceful” Muslims.
    If life is so precious to Muslims, why do you refuse, as a group, to root out and eliminate the violent element in your midst??
    By the way, I have traveled and have numerous connections in Muslim countries. To tell me that as a society, most of them value life, is ridiculous.
    Yes, around the metropolitan areas of some of the more developed countries, life is quite stable. But get away from those areas and into the “countryside” and one finds quite a different story. There the “will of Allah” explains away a lot undesirable and in some cases, truly barbaric situations.
    I keep trying to help people, like yourself, to understand the cartoon. You see it as an affront to Islam. I see it as truth. A truth that will endure until Islam decides to root out the violent element in your midst or take off the facade of being peaceful and just admit that although you may not join them, you have no serious problems with the methods the violent element are using.

  17. Patrick says:

    Greg: Thanks for your explanation. However could you address how God would be ok with for generations not showing Jesus/himself to people all over the globe until the advent of mission work? (What I am trying to get at is why God sat back while people were “heathen” for so long, waiting for white people, who were heathen too, to become converted, and then going out themselves and saving the poor heathens of the world. Some of these being my ancestors; I would like some sort of explanation as to why they didn’t ‘fit’ into God’s plan until the 1600’s and later.)

    Delta: Thanks much for your compliments, they are short lived and far between for me on this site haha. I try to articulate myself, and be respectful at the same time; it is nice to see that someone else thinks so.

    For the both of you, I could easily quote the Bible out of context and give it a COMPLETELY different meaning. This is true of everything from a Sports Illustrated article on Troy Polamalu, to the Bhagavad Gita – and everything in between. To Delta’s credit, the use of the whole quote, gives the one line in question, (“Kill Them Wherever You Find Them.”) much more validity.

    What if I quote one line of Leviticus here: Keep in mind this is God speaking.

    “You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.”

    You would say thats not what its all about! Then fill in the detail as to what the scripture is really saying… same with the Qu’ran… Case and Point. Thanks for reading, Patrick Molohon

  18. Delta says:

    Steve if i may, i think you may be broadening the subject a little too far for one and for another i think your making assumptions because YOU have not heard the outcry from the, as you put it, Peaceful portion of Islam. I have not heard an outcry from the Christian community condemning the acts of white supremists burning crosses in the deep south of America. I do not hear a public outcry from Catholics against priests who molest children. That does not mean that the majority of the people who follow those religions do not condemn the people commiting the atrocities it simply means exactly what is stated. You and I do not hear it. It does not mean it does not exist. Im forced to point out the irony of that kind of logic in a debate centering around faith if i may ;). If you cant see it -it doesnt exist? not the kind of logic you usually find around a topic such as this.
    And Greg i must say that according to your beliefs, and i dont mean any disrespect to them i just ask you to respect that not everyone shares them, Jesus (pbuh) died and rose roughly the same time give or take 3 days. So even though i said 100 years after he died and you say 100 years after he rose the point is the same and the comment was a trifle…
    and as a last thing… i usually would like to keep these comments out of these kinds of forums but i just cant restrain myself… i feel it might be a little justified seeing as you’ve been throwing around comments of the same kind. It is according to YOU and YOUR beliefs that it is the greatest book ever written… but to others i BEG you to realize that it is just that… a good inspiration but not much more. Jesus (pbuh) is regarded as a great prophet in Islam, he brought peace and understanding to many people, he inspired faith in God, and he showed others the path to living a rightous life… but he is just that and no more, a greath prophet. Just as was Abraham, Noah, and Moses (Pbuta) and ending with the last prophet and one of the most revered, Mohammad (PPbuh). No arguing Jesus was a great man but there is an obvious differing of oppinion as to his divinity. In fact there was arguing on the subject since his acension… 3 egnostic gospels state that he was a man. while 4 say he was divine.

  19. Greg P says:

    Patrick, there were many missionaries in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th centuries and beyond, in Europe around Germany, and the modern day UK area and spreading into Scandinavia and elsewhere. Now, are you talking about the lack of missionaries among the Native Americans or ancient tribesman of Africa, etc.? I might not have a good enough answer for that, but, I’ll tell you my thoughts on it.

    God has many attributes, among them He is all loving, all just, and all knowing. He created all, but, He will only save those that trust in His Son, Jesus Christ, for salvation. He already knows who WILL and who will NEVER come to Christ for salvation. God cannot deny one of His attributes to favor another of His attributes. There may be places in the world that God knew would NEVER accept belief in His Son, no matter how many missionaries would have come there. In those instances, I believe He chose to let those people stay in their sin. Is that a cruel thing to do? Maybe, to our limited capacity minds it is, but, to God’s omniscient mind, I say no. I think if God knew it would be best for us to know the answer, then He would see to it that we find out.

    Since God is the Creator, He is also the Master. In other words, He can do what he wants. We, meaning mankind, are the rebellious and disobedient sinners. We don’t have the right to question God. The creation cannot question the Creator. That’s why God tells us to believe on faith. We don’t understand everything, but, we trust that God is in control, which He most certainly is.

    I believe on faith, and for someone who does not believe in God at all, that probably does not make sense. But, that’s the best answer my limited intelligence can give you. I’m sure there are other Christians reading this that can give you a more complete answer.

    I’m not certain you’re even looking for a true answer, or just trying to trip me up, but, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

  20. Patrick says:

    To begin with I appreciate your benefit of the doubt. Well to me, its just a question that doesn’t have an answer. I would really like to believe that God loves all his people; and is just and all… But why he would create people… that he knew would never come to him? I’m really not trying to be a jerk about this, but it really isn’t adding up to me. Thanks as always for reading, Patrick Molohon.

  21. Delta says:

    Patrick if i may offer an insight… God may have sent “missionaries” of i higher calliber to those places… Prophets. many cultures have religions that believe in God, believe in Jesus (pbuh), and also believe in another prophet. Rastafari believe that God sent another Son to earth in Africa, Jah. Muslims believe that God sent the angle Gabriel to Mohammad (ppbuh) to bring faith to the people. Ba’hai teaches that the Ba’halan was visited by the Lord to give his people the message of salvation. Many cultures have accepted God just in a different manner. It is Christians that cannot accept that God revealed himself to other peoples and to me that is a lack of faith. Your question is an excellent one that some Christians refuse to acknowledge, Why would God only reveal himself to the Israelites?

  22. Greg P says:

    Patrick, I believe you when you say that you’re just trying to get answers to difficult questions. You’re 18 and you’re full of ideas and questions about the mysteries of the world and what comes next. I wish I could make you realize that there IS a God and He is in control and DOES know what He is doing.

    I’VE often wondered why there are so many galaxies and are they inhabited. I’ve been told that God may have just created all that vastness just to show us His greatness and that He has NO limits. It does make sense to me because I believe in God, and I believe in His plan for salvation through Jesus Christ, His Son.

    “Why would God only reveal Himself to the Israelites?” That’s a good question. Why not ask God. If you want answers go right to the source. He’s open 24/7. If I quoted anything from the Bible you wouldn’t believe it anyway because, to you, the Bible is not the Word of God, just a simple book.

    Patrick, God will reveal Himself to those that sincerely seek Him. If you really want to learn about God, ask Him to give you answers. If you are sincere about knowing God He will answer your prayers. But, you may have to be patient because God does everything in His perfect timing, not according to our own agenda.

  23. Delta says:

    Well, its not that i wouldnt believe you if you quoted the Bible, its just i would have to take it with a grain or two of salt. Greg what do you think about the other religions i mentioned that believe in Jesus (pbuh)? God gave you the power of reason and rationality as well and in the Bible it tells us not to waste the gifts granted to us by God. I have asked God many times Greg, and i have listned many times to Him when He speaks. “Praying is when you speak to God, Meditating is when God speaks back” have you ever meditated? Go into the glory of nature that God has created for us and find the peace that flows out of all living things. Listen to the whisper of the tree’s and the songs of the wind. His majesty is all around us. If you take time to center yourself, and examine all that is laid before you, if you follow the dictates of your heart and listen to your own soul you learn many invaluable things. Peace and Prayers upon you both brothers.

  24. Greg P says:

    Delta:

    You’re not really Joel Osteen, are you?

  25. Delta says:

    Who?… im quite sure, i dont believe ive ever heard the name before.

  26. Steve says:

    Delta,
    As with all generalities, there are always exceptions. So it is with Muslims. I know that there are some Muslims who denounce the violent element in their midst.
    But the voices who are cited as the voice of Islam (CAIR) only give lip service to the issue.
    Take the conviction of the “Fort Dix Six”.
    Did CAIR take the opportunity to condemn the convicted terrorist? No. They instead chose to tout out the so-called “Isalmophobia” card. They had the perfect opportunity to show their support for our country and judicial system in combating terrorism and they chose not to.
    Like it or not, CAIR is what people see, here in the U.S, as the face of Islam. We see Al Jazeera, which constantly gives time to religious leaders preaching terror and death against us.
    The Christian items you mention are fringe groups and isolated incidents for the most part (by the way, I don’t see eye to eye with the Catholic Church, and tend to be a critic of many of their policies).
    The Islamic sources I’ve cited are not fringe, but mainstream and highly visible. Maybe you peaceful Muslims need to put more pressure on those advocacy groups to represent your views more accurately.
    As for Jesus being the Son of God, God incarnate in Human form: just because your prophet decided that it would benefit him by declaring Jesus is not the Son of God, this does not negate the actual sayings Jesus made that were recorded by the Apostles. I’m inclined to believe those writing over the ravings of a man living in a cave, supposedly being preached to by Angels.
    Recheck your data on the agnostic texts; they have been shown to date well after the Gospels were written.

  27. Delta says:

    Steve your inclinations are all very well and good but is it not so in the Bible that Mary was visited by an angel? that Moses was spoken to through a burning bush? that Abraham was told not to sacrafice his son at the word of a messanger? Since when has the disbelief in the words of angels come into anything? That was rude and unnecassary. I have not insulted any of your religous icons or beliefs just simply presented a different view on them. In fact if i were to reread every post it might be said that i have shown more respect and reverenece for Jesus (pbuh) than YOU have. You offer no honorific or words of praise and reverence, i have followed his name each time with the proper sign of respect. Pbuh or Peace be upon him. a tradition in arab cultures and the Islamic faith. All prophets must be shown reverence since they are the chosen of God.

  28. Delta says:

    And you call Islamic extremists “mainstream” and that there needs to be more “peacefull” muslims. There are 1.2 BILLION muslims in the this world, are you telling me that a majority of them are terrorists?

  29. Patrick says:

    This is a very valid point, Delta. I’m sure that if you toured American prisons you would find many inmates there to be of the Christian faith. This however, does not mean that all Christians are criminals. Thus as it is with Muslims. It is solely on the individual. One could argue that individuals of certain backgrounds may be more inclined to act or do things a certain way based on percentages; but in essence that itself is exactly what it is. A percentage. Steve, Delta, Greg, and I are all U.S. citizens. (To my knowledge anyways) So the four of us all in theory buy into the U.S. constitution. That being said we each have our own individual points of view, and ways of expressing such views. We may all be U.S. citizens but you cannot catagorize us together. If you get the meaning behind this analogy it is that no matter what there is no way to truly catagorize people, since each person has free will, and free thought. To say that most/all Muslims are extremists is relative at best. Using such logic I could argue that most Christians are very exclusive. However, this is flawed logic; first of all I did not define the word ‘most’ so it could mean a multitude of things, and second it is a statement of personal bias and opinion. We must remember to think about individuals instead of groups – thats in essence what I’m trying to stress. Thanks for reading, Patrick Molohon.

  30. Steve says:

    Delta,
    Since there are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world and only a small percentage of them are so-called “radicals”, let’s say 200 million for ease of math, are you telling me that 1 billion “peaceful” Muslims cannot root out the 200 million “radicals” within their midst? Numerically it’s six to one odds.
    Let me make an example.
    There is a so-called “Christian” group called the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas. The Westboro people have decided that the Bible tells them that the death of U.S. soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan is God’s punishment on the U.S. for advancing the homosexual agenda. As a result of these thoughts, they choose to noisily protest at many service people’s funerals.
    First off, the Westboro “church” has been repeatedly criticized by all major Christian leaders via the mainstream media. I have repeatedly been very critical of them on this blog. Also, at every protest they hold, five to ten times more people, the majority of them Christians, show up to counter protest and overshadow them.
    I would be delighted to even see that type of reaction from the Muslim world in response to terrorist acts. It just doesn’t happen. Can imagine what would happen in countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan or even Saudi Arabia if Muslims did protest against terror attacks?? They’d all be killed or maimed for their efforts, by other Muslims, by the way.
    Why didn’t any major Muslim community here in the U.S. organize a march in protest of the Mumbai attacks? We saw many protest, pulled together almost overnight, protesting Israel’s counterattack on Gaza. But we see little to nothing from the Muslims in response to terror. Why??
    Going back, once again, to the crux of the cartoon…Muslims can organize (often violent) protest about the honoring of a less than notable author, or some cheesy cartoons run in little known paper, but choose to remain silent at the atrocities committed in the name Islam. That’s duplicity, complacency and outright support of the evil in your midst.

  31. Steve says:

    Delta,
    I have no problems with angelic messages. I have a problem with your prophet.
    I will not show him respect because I believe he is a false prophet.
    Not only does he meet the requirements of a false prophet as described in the Bible (making false statements), he accuses (without evidence) that the Torah and Bible are perverted and inaccurate (even thought the oldest copies are identical to the newest copies and predate Mohammad hundreds, if not thousands of years), but also says that saying Jesus is the Son of God is blasphemy (even though Jesus Himself said He is the Son of God, and as a “prophet” of God would not have been able to lie about that), and it makes me sick to think of all the souls that are going to be condemned Hell thanks to this man’s made up religion. As you might recall, Mohammad was first inclined to believe the dreams he was having were from the Devil. Every major conflict in the world today was either started by Muslims or includes Muslims. So respect the man who started all of this?? I don’t think so.
    Jesus is the King of Kings and the Prince of Peace. He is God’s Son and Part of God the Father and the Holy Spirit. He doesn’t need your “(pbuh)”. You want to show Him respect, then quit calling Him a deceiver and a lair.

  32. Steve says:

    Patrick,
    Your point is correct in this respect: I truly do believe that Delta is one of a large group of peace loving Muslims; who truly believe that violence aimed at advancing Islam has no place in today’s world.
    Although we have digressed into some very useful and interesting sidebars, once again, the point of this cartoon is to show the duplicity, complacency and outright support of the violent aspect of Islam that is a sizable portion of the Muslim population today.

  33. Delta says:

    You keep saying that Muslims do not speak out against terrorists, but in fact they do. i must remind you again just because you do not see or hear it does not mean it is not there. that is the entire principle of faith in general! It is not under the power or muslims to designate what the liberal media publishes. The American Muslim Political Co-ordination Committee (AMPCC), which is a group of major American Muslim organizations issued a statement on September 11, 2001 condemning the terrorist attacks. The AMPCC statement read in part:

    “American Muslims utterly condemn what are vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.”
    Signed:

    Afghan Muslim Association (Fremont, CA)
    American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ)
    American Muslims Intent on Learning and Activism (AMILA)
    Arab-American Congress, Council on American-Islamic Relations (Northern California)
    Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Bay Area
    Islamic Networks Group (ING)
    Islamic Society of the East Bay (Union City, CA)
    Islamic Society of San Francisco
    Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) West Zone
    Muslim American Society
    Muslim Community Association (MCA)
    Muslim Peace Fellowship (Nyack, NY)
    South Bay Islamic Association (San Jose, CA)
    Zaytuna Institute (Hayward, CA)

    Statements of Prominent Islamic Scholars

    “Hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood constitute a form of injustice that can not be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts”
    Shaykh Abdul Aziz al-Ashaikh (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and Chairman of the Senior Ulama, on September 15th, 2001)
    “The terrorists acts, from the perspective of Islamic law, constitute the crime of hirabah (waging war against society)”

    You assume because only in name we share a faith that our governments will be any more effective at finding these pitiful cowards who hide in our midst? and you say that every major conflict is started by muslims? Christians started three different wars that spand hundreds of years for land that they did not even live in or have ties to.
    and steve, i did not say you have not shown my prophet respect i said you have not shown your own savior respect. That last comment was only one of a handful were you refer to him with titles of worthy honor. and yet again you mistate wrods of the qu’ran. While Christianity and Judism forbid marrying outside of the faith Islam said it was perfectly natural and to honor your wife or husband of a different faith even more than you would one of the same. Because in respecting him or her you respect all of man kind and you respect the free will God gave us to choose for ourselves. The world wide growth rate is 2.3% while the growth rate of Islam is 2.9% and Christianity is at 2.2%. Your ancestors rejected Jesus (pbuh) as well and it took hundreds and thousands of years for many peoples to accept Jesus. Im not trying to convert you, that has not been the point of any of this, it is only to try and ask you to see that respect for other religions is absolutley necassary for peace between them.

  34. Steve says:

    Delta,
    I can sympathize with the liberal media aspect. It has been my experience that the liberal media is extremely anti-Israel.
    I do appreciate the statements made after 9/11, but my comment about a lack of public demonstrations still holds merit. It would be wonderful if Muslims would protest as enthusiastically against terror as they do about negative comments about your prophet and supposed slights against your holy book.
    You misquoted me on the conflict comment. I said that every “current” conflict is either started by Muslims or involve Muslims.
    As for respect, I respect your right to live your life and worship how you see fit. All I ask is that Muslims do the same for me.
    I know you are not trying to convert me, and really, I’m not trying to convert you. What I am trying to do is help you to understand the message that is being conveyed by the cartoon. As I said before, generalities will always have a group that does not fall into that category. Stereotypes are generalities, so they will carry some inaccuracy. But stereotypes exist for a reason. They exist because a substantial portion of the group being stereotyped is acting in that manner.
    Delta, I feel that you are a good, sincere person. I believe that one person can make a difference. Maybe you are that “one person” in regards to the perception of Islam.
    Thank you for the comments and this exchange of ideas.

  35. Count Vin says:

    I,an agonistic(who simply happens to believe in freedom of speech for those among you that will ask me what I am doing on a Christian site) consider such a picture disgusting and immoral. Much like the actions of those responsible for it, and those depicted in it.I would like to point out to you all, especially those that claim the Jesus is god,that Jesus was chartered as the son of god by Constantine, a pagan emperor, who declared himself christian to better his position as Emperor.

  36. MuzlemLuver says:

    i am a killer islam believer..the korun def told me to annilate da innocent..if they dont do izlam then DESTROY THEM!!! anyone who thinks islam is about gay not hurting peeple is a retard!

    LONG LIVE STEVE!!!

  37. Steve says:

    MuzlemLuver,
    The cold in Minnesota must be getting to you. I recommend wrapping up in warm blankets and maybe even partaking of some hot soup.
    Don’t worry, summer will be along directly.

  38. Mr. G says:

    COME ON FOLKS. YOU’RE ALL ARGUING ABOUT A PIE IN THE SKY. THERE IS NO JESUS, NO MOHAMED, NO GOD. IT’S ALL AN ANCIENT STORY DERIVED FROM EGYPTIAN ASTRONOMY & MYTHOLOGY. GET A GRIP ON REALITY – THERE IS NO SPOOK IN THE SKY, NO ANGELS, NO DEMONS – JUST A BUNCH OF RULERS ON OUR PLANNET WHO BRAINWASH KIDS WITH A RELIGIOUS INDOCTRINATION TO SERVE THE RULERS OWN GOALS SO THEY CAN CONTROL US AT A PROFIT. GET REAL, WHAT THE SPOOK IN THE SKY LOOKS LIKE, IS NAMED OR REPRESENTS MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO MANKIND. IT’S HUMAN BEHAVIOUR ON THIS PLANNET THAT MATTERS AND DISCRIMINATION AGAINST OTHER SPOOK BELIEFS IS POOR BEHAVIOUR, DESTRUCTIVE, SELFISH AND IF THERE WAS A REAL SPOOK, HE /SHE. IT WOULD DISAPPROVE OF YOUR SELFISH BEHAVIOUR.

    MR G.

  39. Mr. G says:

    HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER WONDERED WHY SCIENTISTS DONT GO TO WAR OVER THEORIES, BUT RELIGIOUS PEOPLE KILL OVER DIFFERENCES IN THEIR THEORIES?

    COULD IT BE BECAUSE SCIENTISTS WORK WITH FACTS AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE WORK WITH FICTION? HOW CAN ONE EVER WIN A DEBATE BASED ON FICTION? HOW CAN ONE EVER MAKE PROGRESS WHEN THERE ARE NO FACTS TO WORK WITH?

    MAYBE THIS EXPLAINS WHY RELIGIONS ARE STILL THE SAME AFTER SO MANY YEARS AND SCIENCE HAS ADVANCED SO MUCH.

    IF ONE MAN HEARS A VOICE HE IS DECLARED INSANE. IF MANY MEN HEAR THE SAME VOICE THEN YOU GET A RELIGION. AND BECAUSE THAT VOICE IS INDOCTRINATED FROM A YOUNG AGE, THE RELIGIOUS PROTECT THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION WITH WAR AND VIOLENCE.

    RELIGION MAKES NO SENSE TO ANYONE OF EVEN AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE!

  40. Steve says:

    Mr. G,
    Feel better now? Glad you help you get that off of your chest.
    God Bless!!

  41. yo says:

    Why do you feel the need to attack other religions? just leave it even if you dont believe it. Let them do what they do and you do what you do.

  42. Steve says:

    Yo,
    What Muslims want is a world governed by Islam, where Islam is the only religion in existence. This is unacceptable to me.
    When they quit killing people who disagree with them, I’ll stop criticizing them.

  43. Yo says:

    So as a Christian your saying that you would’nt like a world governed by Christianity, where Christianity is the only religion in existence. Wouldnt you like everyone to be a Christian, wouldnt that be your perfect world. Well this is the same with Islam and as a Muslim i would want the world to be ruled by islam but thats not likely to happen anyway because they are too many people asleep in the world, not willing to search for or accept the truth. About the killing people who disagree with them, your talking about extremists who are not considered mulims by real peaceful muslims like my self. Why are you blaming the entire muslim community for some extremists claiming to be muslims. They may believe what their doing is for the greater good but mostly their wrong. Steve, why have you been hypnotized by the mass media to believe every Muslim is a terrorist. This is a part of the Illuminati’s plan for a NWO, turn the people against Islam because Islam is the truth. Their feeding you lies. Dont believe every thing you see on the TV or hear on the Radio. You should research into the NWO and you should definately watch “The Arrivals” on Youtube, its such an eye opener. Focus on the bigger picture, their turning us against each other when be should be working together to increase awareness of the new world order. Divide and conquer. Please dont criticize something you dont fully understand. You need to realise Islam is beautiful.

  44. rita says:

    whether u like it or not jesus christ is the same yesterday today and forever. in hebrew 13,God will not allow any prophet the power to forgive sins.in the bibble it was jesus alone who have the power to forgive sins ,so god being so merciful ,he came down from the throne to save his children,so jesus is GOD,compare it with the quaran,allah is the ressurestor,healer,the one who forgives sins ,theses are the same miracles performed by the messiah, my dear muslims who say sthat the bibble is corrupt,meanwhile the holy bibble took place b4 the comming of the quaran,even in jesus teachings he did not mention any sisgns of mohhamed,and any religion,what he siad was watch out cuz false religions and prophets will come after me.and many pp will recieve it and it is true . the lord says in ezekiel that woe unto those who faces the moon to worship, ask ur who are those who faces the moon before prayer.the new testament teaches how jesus is loving,compassionte and caring,.watch out………..

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