Legal Opposition for Publicly Funded Islamic School

I believe America is the only country in the world who will risk safety to be known as ‘tolerant’. We know how the Muslims train their children to hate (kill) Jews and Christians. We see their preschool age children on the news toting assault rifles and chanting about their hate of the West. Yet, in an effort to be tolerant of Islam we not only ALLOW an Islamic school to be formed in New York we also FUND it with PUBLIC MONEY! I have to say that is one of the most idiotic things I have heard in a while. I would love to say that I am speechless, but nothing surprises me in America these days.

A Christian legal group will represent citizens opposed to the planned launch of a publicly funded academy in New York City where students will be immersed in Islamic culture.

Khalil Gibran International Academy features several Islamist imams on its board of advisers, as well as other promoters with connections to militant Islamic groups, according to the Thomas More Law Center.

“This proposed public school is nothing more than an incubator for the radicalization that leads to terrorism, as an NYPD Intelligence Report warned Americans just two weeks ago,” said Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel for legal group.

“Rather than use the public school system to assimilate Muslims and other immigrants into American culture, New York City is doing everything it can to keep them isolated – a target rich environment for recruiting potential new homegrown terrorists and a recipe for a future 9/11 disaster, according to my read of the NYPD Report,” he said.

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16 Responses to “Legal Opposition for Publicly Funded Islamic School”

  1. Anonymous says:

    Curious…(and for the record I am Christian, not Muslim)

    How is possible that you could possibly believe that “all” Muslims teach their kids to hate and kill Jews?

    The radical people we see on the news, that attacked our Nation, that do these atrocities, are extremist/terrorists groups and a seperate breed from true Islam. Even Muslims themselves fear many of these groups.

    Seperately, Jews also do the same thing to many Muslims.
    It is only through education that peace will ever find a way into these conflicted lands and conflicted hearts.

  2. Jason says:

    On an unrelated note to Anon’s comment, but as to the school itself, if it truly is a religious school, and not simply a school in which Islam can be studied, public funds should not be used as this would be a breech of seperation of church and state…

    The difference being, simply being taught *about* Islam and Christianity is distinctly different than being taught *to be* a Muslim or a Christian…

  3. Steve says:

    OK Jason, pigs are going to fly if I continue to agree with you. 🙂
    Putting aside the fact that there is no such thing as “separation of church and state” for a moment, I agree with you that funding a religious school (for clarity, one that teaches “how to be part of” a specific religion) should not happen. All religious schools should be privately funded. If funds are denied to Christians, they should be denied to all religious groups.
    Teaching “about” a religion is not teaching that religion and can be allowed.
    Here in lies the trap. Where is the line between teaching “about” and teaching “how”?
    An example is my son’s textbook. It talks about the origins of all mainstream religions; about one page per religion. Except for Islam. The publishers of the book felt it necessary to include the “five pillars of Islam”. These are religious tenants and should not be taught. No other group outlined in this text had their tenants listed.
    I my opinion, the publisher crossed the line.
    So do we exclude all religious teaching in favor or ignorance, or do we allow all groups to show their tenants?

  4. Steve says:

    Anon,
    Please read the Koran and then come back to talk to us. You have no frame of reference outside of what you have been dished by the main stream media.

  5. Josh says:

    Steve,
    Please recognize that the Koran was written thousands of years ago in the context of much violence in the Middle East. Many interpretations are held of the Koran, both violent and peaceful. In any faith, you will find extremists who choose to follow one interpretation of a text to justify or rationalize violent action.

    To generalize and place all Muslims into the role of violent savages based upon your personal reading of the Koran and the interpretations of say, Al Qaeda, is the same as generalizing Christian beliefs based upon the beliefs of the Ku Klux Klan.

    Thanks for your blog.
    Josh

  6. Steve says:

    Josh,
    Here is an excerpt from one of Jack Kinsella’s articles. He says it better than I can (sorry for the length):

    Islam has two streams of theological thought; those based on Mohammed’s sayings in Mecca and those penned from Medina. Both eventually were brought together in the Koran, but reflect two entirely different worldviews.

    The Meccan view is the ‘universalist’ view that holds that Islam, Christianity and Judaism all worship the same Deity and that we are all “People of the Book.”

    The Medina view is the warlike, conquering Islam that is reflected in the Koran by verses such as, “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” [Sura 5.51]

    Historians agree that there is a big difference between Mohammed’s religious teachings from Mecca and his teachings after his migration to Medina.

    In Mecca Mohammed was weak, struggling to be accepted, often mocked at and ridiculed. He tried to appeal to the people of Mecca by being compassionate and loving. His teachings condemned violence, injustice, neglect of the poor.

    However, after he moved to Medina and his followers grew in strength and number, he became a relentless warrior, intent on spreading his religion by the sword.

    This change in Mohammed’s personality becomes apparent by comparing the Meccan and the Medinan suras. The following are some additional examples:

    In Sura 73:10 God tells Mohammed to be patient with his opponents “Be patient with what they say, and part from them courteously.”

    In Sura 2:191 God orders him to kill his opponents “Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out…”

    In Sura 2:256 Allah tells Mohammed not to impose Islam by force “There is no compulsion in religion.”

    In verse 193 God tells him to kill whoever rejects Islam “Fight (kill) them until there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s.”

    In Sura 29:46 Allah tells Mohammed to speak nicely to people of the Book (Christians and Jews) “Argue with people of the Book, other then evil doers, only by means of what are better! and say, we believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you. Our God is the same as your God, and we are surrendered to him.”

    Then in Sura 9:29 Allah tells him to fight the people of the Book, “Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day…and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior.”

    To justify this sudden change in the Koran’s mood from peaceful to militant, conciliatory to confrontational, Mohammed claimed that it was Allah who told him so.

    History demonstrates that what actually happened was that Mohammed grew strong in Medina — strong enough to move from being conciliatory in his religious approach to jihad.

    Those who claim to be moderate followers of Islam are those who follow the Meccan Mohammed. The militants follow the Mohammed of Medina.

    Islam teaches love, temperance and moderation. It’s easy enough to prove. Just read the Koran. However, since few ever will, the American face of moderate Islam will read it to you, as is evidently the case with the Bush administration.

    But the same Koran teaches jihad, death and destruction out of the same pages, and while the American face of moderate Islam will never read those to you, the militant Islamist reads them every single day.

    Verses like the following:

    Men are superior to women (Sura 2:228).

    Women have half the rights of men: in court witness (Sura 2:282) and in inheritance (Sura 4:11).

    A man may punish his wife by beating her (Sura 4:34).

    A man may marry up to four wives at the same time (Sura 4:3).

    A wife is a sex object for her husband (Sura 2:223).

    Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam (Sura 9:29).

    A Muslim must not take a Jew or a a Christian for a friend (Sura 5:51).

    A Muslim apostate must be killed (Sura 9:12).

    Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands (Sura 5:38).

    Adultery is punished by public flogging (Sura 24:2).

    Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet (Sura 5:33).

    Fate decides everyone’s eternal destination (Sura 17:13).

    Every Muslim will pass through Hell (Sura 19:71).

    Heaven in Islam is the place where a Muslim will be reclining, eating meats and delicious fruits, drinking exquisite wines, and engaging in sex with virgins (Sura 55:54- 56) & (Sura 52:17,19).

    You might notice I didn’t include a lot of the ‘moderate’ verses ‘proving’ the Koran presents Islam as a religion of peace and love.

    That isn’t because they aren’t there. But they are rendered meaningless by the verses that teach the opposite.

    Islamic apologists point to the warlike nature of the Old Testament and the seeming contradiction presented by the Prince of Peace in the New Testament.

    But the Koran isn’t two separate religions based on two separate Dispensations of God, clearly divided by 400 years of silence followed by the fulfillment of the Old Testament in the life of Jesus Christ.

    One has to be an Islamic scholar to separate the Meccan verses from the Medinan verses to know whether Allah wants them to be friends with Christians and Jews or to crucify them.

    It is that split personality within Islam that separates the moderates from the militants. We are told that the moderates are in the majority, but all the evidence seems to indicate the exact opposite.

    In any case, there are approaching two billion Muslims in the world — that is two thousand million, to put it more descriptively. If even ten percent of Islam follows the Mohammed of Medina, that’s 100 million militant Muslims.

    That’s a lot, no matter how you interpret it.

    There is a Qur’anic verse that says that when a verse is abrogated, the one that replaces it is as good as or better than the one it is replacing: “None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?” (Qur’an 2:106).

  7. Anonymous says:

    Responding to all:

    Jason- I absolutely agree with you that teaching *about* and *how to be* a religion are two very different things. Good point.

    Steve- I also agree that there is no real separation between Church and State. But that aside, there is a real difference between teaching ‘about’ vs. ‘how to be’ a religion. I can see how it may be difficult to not be affected when learning about them, especially if you are particularly secular or particular faithful on one religious path.

    However, teaching “how to be” any religion, for one example as in private Catholic schools, the curriculum is laced “how to be” a good Catholic (i.e. going to mass, teaching you prayers, reading the Bible, seeking confession etc…) on a daily basis…

    Learning ‘about’ any religion will, without fail, touch upon the fundamentals of that religion (i.e. The Five Pillars of Islam) It is important to note that the origins of Islam are *intertwined* with these five pillars and maybe the reason in which they were included in your son’s textbook. Just as it is likely that the text book touched upon Christians viewing Jesus as The Messiah/and part of The Holy Trinity (these are also ‘tenants’ as you describe) but I think to the point of the textbook, or to any impartial religious studies, they simply outlining the definitions and history of each religion.

    Steve- I appreciate your thoughts and perhaps I could go back and re-read the Qur’an. However, to Josh’s point, there are many ways people interpret not only all Holy books, but their outlook on life. In my opinion, these differences are reflective of the experiences they choose to relate their life to, their education, amongst many other factors. To keep to the point, The Pillars of the Islamic faith do not preach violence.

    To second Josh’s final point, generalizing (or stereo-typing people) happens all the time, and to a degree it is normal to fear what we do not understand. Which is why, to my initial thought on this blog, it is important to educate people about these differences, to bridge the gap…so that people can understand the differences between religions and the differences that can exist amongst the umbrellas of extremism within any faith.

    We are (on a global scale) at the height of radical Islam. Look at Christianity minus 600 years and you may find some similarities. What is going on now within these extreme radical groups is an explosion of many socio-political problems that have existed beyond decades. From the most obvious (political involvement of the U.S.) to the things you don’t think about, or may never fully comprehend (poverty, lack of education, killing, civil wars)- all one big vicious cycle breeding hatred and contempt. These people are ‘devils’ because many of them have been living in hell.

    Thanks for your thoughts!

  8. Anoymous says:

    Steve,

    You can not take any book, in part, and make a fair assessment. I could take The Bible and The Torah and note equally conflicted statements and then find counterstatements within the same book that better explain the initial point trying to be made.

    There will always be good and bad- I think my last post explains why we are at the height of so much violence and hatred.

    I truely think that it may be you that has been affected by main stream media. Things are not so black and white.

  9. Beth says:

    Wow Steve, you have been busy fielding comments today, huh? AND you agree with Jason on something? Mark this as a day that will live in infamy. We may even have to declare it a national holiday!

    Josh & Anonymous,

    Here is what the qur’an teaches about those who are not muslim.

    “Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush” (Surah 9:5)
    “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth of the people of the Book (the Jews and the Christians) until they pay the Jizya [tax on non-Muslims] with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” (Surah 9:29)
    “Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other.” (Qur’an 48:29)
    “Enmity and hatred will reign between us until ye believe in Allah alone.” (Qur’an 60:4)
    Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily God doth see all that they do. (Qur’an 8:37-39)
    And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. (Qur’an 2:193)
    “Fight the unbelievers in your surroundings, and let them find harshness in you.” (Qur’an 9:123)
    “For he who believes in the Trinity, “the Fire will be his abode … a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemer.” Qur’an (5:72-73)

    I think it is pretty clear that muslims are taught to hate/kill those who are not muslim. This is the book that is taught to every muslim from childhood. Is it any wonder that they hate us so much? I see no reason to defend or place muslims in classes (ie. radical, extremists). They are all taught the same principles which ARE extreme. You can defend them all you want, but the fact is that islam is a great threat to our country and we do not need islamic schools (especially those who are publicly funded) in America.

  10. Anonymous says:

    I stand firm (as a Christian, who has studied this religion extensively) that Islam does not teach to hate/kill those who are not Muslim. The above sentences have been extracted out of context, and strung together in a way that misrepresents their meaning.

    There are separately, militant extremist groups, who which hold a hatred for the West and look upon us as infidels etc…There are people that follow some of these versus and have created versions of Islamic ideologies to an extreme viewpoint, to a terrorist level, but these people to do not hate us -because- of these versus and their studies, their hatred and the formation of these militant groups was born from years of socio-political dysfunction and interference from the U.S. within their affairs.

    There is a wealth of information that many Americans are simply not exposed to, and are not aware of. Politically, the U.S. has a hand in many places/things where we are not welcome. In the process of globalizing the world, we take away the autonomy and culture of many countries, we use what we need and leave the rest when it is not needed. I love the United States, we are a strong country, with a great sense of nationality. Within the US we have a long-standing democracy, freedom, education…(amongst many other things we take for granted) that these countries do not have set in motion- which is key to understanding all of this.

    Islam is not a threat to our country; it is Terrorism that is a threat to our country. How and why terrorism is perpetuated is the key to eliminating this major problem we face. Our own government has been a threat to our country at times, to refuse to educate ourselves on global politics and the way in which religion defines these societies, only exacerbates the hatred and separation even more. To ignore the dire need for education and understanding is our own sword, adding fuel to the fire. It is apparent that many of you do not understand not only Islam as a faith, but much about political interference and where all this has been born from.

    Separately Beth, could you please help us understand why then, if Christianity doesn’t condone war, bloodshed etc…why have the Crusades and all other Religious wars occurred throughout history? You should dig a little deeper before throwing such harsh hateful words out into the Universe, and making such general, ignorant generalizations.

  11. Steve says:

    Our Anonymous commentator from the East Coast must have studied a different Islam than the one I studied.
    My friend, even if one does not choose to be a Jihadist, that does not change what the Koran teaches. It teaches that all who have not accepted Islam are at best second class people who will be treated that way and at worse an enemy of Islam who must be destroyed.
    The Koran is abrogated. The passages that abrogate the older passages are almost all warlike and advocate violence.
    Again, even if one does not choose to be an actual Jihadist, the Koran does teach these violent tenants. That is a fact.
    Call us “ignorant” and “hateful”, but in this area, we do know what we are talking about.

  12. Beth says:

    Anon,

    Maybe you should dig a little deeper into your “study” of Islam before throwing such ignorant words out into the ‘universe’ (out into the universe? strange……). Also, did I ever state that Chrisitanity does not condone war? Did I say that Christians have not been involved in bloodshed? Nope. Never said that.

    I find it odd that you call yourself a Christian, yet defend (adimantly, I might add) a religion that considers it a high calling to kill Jews and Christians. Might I ask to what denomination you belong? Just curious.

    I could go on and on in a lengthy reply to your statements, but I feel that it would be a waste of my time. You are a defender of Islam – I see no defense for Islam. I read a story about a woman bishop who said she was both Christian and Muslim – cant happen. Thought you should know.

  13. Anonymous says:

    I am a Christian, does it matter what denomination? It seems that both Beth and Steve are focused on separating people, where my focus is to bring a better understanding on what religion(s) actually represent to the faithful people that follow them (or as you interpret this Beth, my ‘adamant defense of Islam’). I think only through understanding and acceptance, comes tolerance. I never claimed to be both Christian and Muslim, or that I want to be a bishop! I am saying (without any offense or ill-will) that your views are narrow and uneducated.

    My point in bringing up the Crusades at all, is to demonstrate that at one very long, point in time, en mass, Christians aggressively killed, viciously and without remorse in the name of Christendom…doesn’t that sound familiar to the Islam extremist of today? They were fighting in honor of their faith and supporting their actions with passages from the Holy Bible, just as these Islamic extremists are doing now. That was the point. Look at Christianity and minus 600 years and you are amidst Christian extremism, killing, hating, and fighting all non-Christians.

    Here are a few things to think about…I hope that you take the below information and do some objective research and analyze all sides:

     Islam is not a homogenous religion. It is divided into many subgroups, including Sunni, Shi’ite, and Sufi. A very small, radical, hate-filled, extremist, Fundamentalist, terrorist wing does exist. So too does a much larger peaceful, moderate wing. Unfortunately, the former seem to capture all the media’s attention, while the latter is rarely heard from.

     It obvious that no one individual speaks for all Muslims. Islam has no single central authority, comparable to the pope and Vatican for the Roman Catholic Church, or to various General Assemblies and the Lambeth Conferences for the Anglican Communion. Rather, it is divided into many traditions and schools.

     This phenomenon is true of most religions. Consider the over 1,000 Christian groups in North America. They include some hate-filled groups as well:

    – The Christian Identity movement.
    – Various white supremacist organizations which usually consider they to be Christians.
    – The terrorists who blew up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

     The spread of terrorism within Islam appears to be due to the presence and interaction of a number of factors:

    – A general renaissance of the religion of Islam throughout North Africa, the Middle East and parts of Asia.
    – The after-effects of previous colonial oppression of Muslim countries
    – Authoritarian dictatorships in the Middle East — many of which are artificially propped up with American foreign policy — with their depressing record of corruption, civil rights violations, and low standard of living. This results in a loss of hope among their public.
    – The lack of separation between religion and the state in Muslim countries.
    – Two main conflicts: One of overwhelming importance in Palestine between Jews and Muslims; one in Kashmir between Hindus and Muslims.

    I am closing my side of this conversation with this:

    As Christians, we should try to practice what Jesus preached, live like him with his tolerance, his understanding, his forgiveness…your world views and generalizations towards others simply strikes me as opposite of what Christ taught. Would Christ the teacher himself deny education? Would Jesus stereo-type all people into one bucket?

    I wouldn’t want war or hate taught in any school- but that’s not “The Religion of Islam” as a whole and that is my point here. It is only with tolerance and education that future generations and this generation, will ever begin to make peace, it is only through education and acceptance that radical Islam will ever cease.

    God Bless this country, this world, because it is the extremists of all religions, hand-in-hand with some of your narrow thoughts displayed here, that will continue to break down man kind.

    Hate (so easily) breeds hate and it’s hard to resist that easy path of hating back…

  14. Steve says:

    Anon,
    Interesting comment. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
    One question?
    When was Jesus tolerant of sin? You said “As Christians, we should try to practice what Jesus preached, live like him with his tolerance, his understanding, his forgiveness”.
    As I recall from what my Bible says, Jesus called sinners “a brood of vipers”. He never was “tolerant” or endorsed sin. He would have seen Islam as a false religion and I assure you, He would not have endorsed it.
    But again, we agree to disagree on this topic.
    Good Luck and God Bless!!

  15. Anonymous says:

    Endorse maybe not, but strive to understand? I hope so.

  16. Anonymous says:

    Steve,

    Thank you for you comments. (The above anonymous is someone different, although I agree)

    I would like to re-iterate that I DO believe that the extreme Islamic groups all over the world are horrendous, they act of the side of evil and break God’s Covenant – in His name (a double whammy).

    I also believe that Islam (as a whole) can not and should not be bucketed into one overall judgment, as many Muslims themselves vehemently renounce what these extremist do and feel even more anger than we do about it- because these extreme, ill-willed people are misrepresenting their faith and creating so much hatred towards those within Islam that follow (what they feel) is the true path.

    I personally know Muslims that feel hatred every day from people (and I am sorry to say this) like you, who have already judged them without even knowing them. They feel separate and outcaste from society, when they are trying to live good lives, trying to forgive the people that are giving them a bad name, praying to God five times a day (see below on that) The people of true Islam are struggling.

    I do not think that Jesus would want good people, to feel outcaste. Do you know that Muslims believe in Jesus, believe he was born of the Virgin Mary and believe he is the Messiah? They believe that He will walk at the end of the world and only those that know Him, will be saved?

    Muslims pray 5 times a day- do you know why?

    Their prayers are broken up five times throughout the day, to try to prevent one from any wrong doing. The idea is- if they have to pray to God every few hours, they are less likely to commit a sin, God is always at the top of their minds. Isn’t that in some way, beautiful?

    I am a defender of Islam, but only to the extent that we shouldn’t judge good people on the acts of those that are clearly doing wrong. It is always the bad that ruin it for the overall good.

    Jesus was compassionate, forgiving, and non-judgmental and as you say, he was not tolerant of sin. Judgment and hatred towards fellow-man kind, defamation of one’s character- these are sins that we should all do our best to stay away from.

    God Bless you too

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