Indonesia quake death toll at 5,427

Continue to pray for the victims of this terrible earthquake.

YOGYAKARTA, Indonesia (Reuters) – International relief efforts picked up on Tuesday for survivors of a weekend earthquake that killed more than 5,000 people on Indonesia’s Java island, with over a score of countries now involved.
Planes carrying vital supplies from abroad reached the stricken region, while the airport at the ancient royal capital of Yogyakarta re-opened to commercial traffic despite a heavily damaged terminal.
A plane carrying a 40-member Chinese medical team as well as five tonnes of medical supplies landed early on Tuesday at Solo, some 60 km (40 miles) north of Yogyakarta province, Xinhua news agency reported.
The quake’s official death toll had reached 5,427 as of Tuesday morning, according to the government’s Social Affairs Department.
The 6.3 magnitude quake left more than 130,000 homeless by one estimate, many without shelter and short of food.
Many survivors who were injured or whose homes were destroyed have been staying on the grounds of hospitals and mosques or in makeshift shelters beside the rubble of their houses.
The tremor early on Saturday was centred just off the Indian Ocean coast near Yogyakarta, the former Javanese royal capital.

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9 Responses to “Indonesia quake death toll at 5,427”

  1. pax romana05 says:

    9/14/07 12:02pm
    Dear friends,

    The frequent quakes in Indonesia caught my attention recently and I believe God is saying something to His children living on those islands.

    The message maybe:

    “Get out of here fast else you may be destroyed along with the heathens and pagans there.”

    I may be wrong, but this is what I’m feeling deep inside of me over and over again.

    I sent an e-mail to a friend of mine (DBU alumna) asking him to leave the country asap with all his people. But I haven’t heard from him yet.

    My request is, “Won’t somebody take this message there to all the believers that they may be saved from God’s wrath upon that nation?”

    Again, I may be wrong, but that island called Indonesia might disappear from the map very soon.

    thanks
    a.t

  2. Jason says:

    The winners are really shownin’ up around here, are they?

    And why, pray tell, must the earthquake be a “message from on high,” as opposed to a natural process that happens on the earth?

    Don’t get me wrong–I’m not knockin’ the prayer thing–do whatever makes you feel better! (I’ll reserve my opinions on that matter for the time being…)

  3. Steve says:

    Jason,
    It seems then you have evidence about this event that we are unfamiliar with? Maybe an affidavit from God stating that He didn’t cause this? Or maybe you have swore testimony from eye witnesses who have an alibi for God?
    If you’re going to give me the same old tired, unprovable argument that “God doesn’t exist, even though I have no evidence that He doesn’t exist, therefore He could not have caused it”, then your “logic” is just as skewed as what you accuse pax romana05’s of.
    Actually pax romana05 has more evidence to back up his argument than you do. He has the Bible, which contains many eye-witness accounts of God levying out justice in a manner just like this.
    Now, my point is not that God ultimately caused, or will cause, any disaster, but that your “logic” is just as “winning” as the commentators who say that disasters may be caused by God as punishment against a rebellious and disobedient mankind.

  4. Jason says:

    Hey Steve,

    I guess this means we’re officially back to disagreeing? 😀

    It boils down to “There is no evidence, ergo, there is no reason to think god is behind this.”

    I cannot have evidence of soemthing that isn’t there. But for you, or for pax to claim that there is a god there, needs proof, otherwise it is just faith.

    Not to say you can’t have “faith” in a god punishing people with an indiscriminate earthquale to kill people, whether or not they were Christian, but it seems to me that if people are going to claim there’s a god behind such actions, they at least need something objective and verifiable with which to make such a claim, otherwise its just plain speculation…

    It is impossible to prove a universal negative. There is no way to prove the absence of god (just as there is no way to prove his existence), but the lack of evidence is a key factor in my decision…

    You can claim sky god till you’re blue in the face–have fun! But you really shouldn’t make claims that such-and-such is punishment, or such-and-such is a message when there is no objective, verifiable evidence that states otherwise…

  5. Steve says:

    No Jason, you are wrong.
    I have evidence. I have the Bible.
    The Bible is an eyewitness account of people who actually spoke with God. They interacted with Him.
    The Bible is historically accurate. It is proven out by archeology. Not one archaeological find has disproven the Bible. As time goes on, more and more findings show how accurate it is. It meets or exceeds the burden of proof that modern society places on any document.
    Just because you don’t like what it says doesn’t give you the right to reject the portions you don’t agree with (the God proving parts) while embracing the historical parts (the archaeological finds).
    Standard rules of debate put the burden of proof on you to disprove an established fact or concept. I already know that you can’t do it. I win this debate before I even “walk” into the room and open my mouth.
    Either embrace the work as a whole (and admit there is a God) or reject it as a whole (and get a bunch of archaeologist mad at you for calling them lairs).
    Now, as for God causing disasters, personally, I believe that he does not do this. Not yet anyway. He used to (Old Testament times) and He will again (Revelations era), but not at this time. I have no more evidence to back up my position than you do.
    Of all of us, Pax actually has the best evidence; The Bible which shows a God who will not hesitate to punish mankind when we do the wrong thing.
    For your sake and even a bit for mine, I hope he is wrong.

  6. Jason says:

    You said: I have evidence. I have the Bible.
    Seriosuly, dude, SUBJECTIVE matter is not evidence.

    You said: The Bible is an eyewitness account of people who actually spoke with God. They interacted with Him.
    Uh-huh. The words “historical fiction” are floating through my mind, but even that doesn’t begin to describe a compilation of allegorical, mythological, anecdotal, and downright fairy tale portions of the book you hold in such high regard…

    You said: The Bible is historically accurate. It is proven out by archeology. Not one archaeological find has disproven the Bible. As time goes on, more and more findings show how accurate it is. It meets or exceeds the burden of proof that modern society places on any document.

    Let’s say as you are digging a hole in the ground, and you come upon some wolf’s bones. An examination of those wolf’s bones reveal he had pork right before he died… Further digging reveals he died right next to a house made out of sticks. And an even larger hole dug into the ground reveals a house that used to be made of straw fifty yards away…

    Suddenly the story of the Three Little Pigs in historically verified!

    Of course, we’ve all seen houses made out of these materials. We know wolves exist. We know they eat pig sometimes… However, we have never documented someone meeting a talking pig, let alone a talking wolf… We’ve never seen, observed, or documented a wolf blowing air at a house in order to get a pig out either…

    But, really, we have to accept it all or reject it, don’t we?

    The same holds true for your archeology argument. Yes, we found a tablet that has a name on it. So we can assume there was a dude with that name as its mentioned both on this tablet and in this book written back in the day. Does that mean he walked on water? Not really… It just means he existed, and we can reasonably assume that’s true as we now have two sources on that. If we happen to find a third, even better! However, we have to look then at all three sources, see what each of them says, what they are in regards to, how old they are, when they were written and by whom, what the author’s point of view was, what they wqere trying to convey about that person, what they thought of him, and so on and so forth. You seem to think that because a tablet, or a grave marker, or some sort of document mentions something, suddenly Jesus walked on water even though nothing else written EXCEPT your book states that, there aren’t fossilized sandals of his sitting around to be tested, there aren’t any other independent records backing up this supposed fact… And, I’m sorry, just because someone found a tablet that says “Jesus” or “Herod,” doesn’t mean everything in your book is automatically true, ESPECIALLY when you have to consider 600 documents by over 40+ authors written over hundreds of years from tons of perspectives and social mores and what-have-you… One inscription on one tablet or rock in a desert does not a garden of eden make…

    The Bible is a collage. It is a collection of documents written over a time span of 600 years or more. These documents take many different forms and reflect the varying socio-political context and intent of their authors. Like middle-aged lovers, each piece has a complicated history. Some show signs of having their roots in oral traditions, in storytelling or chant. Others appear to be fragments of liturgy. Older documents may be quoted loosely or even misquoted. The Bible occasionally refers to other texts, some no longer in existence.

    Every piece of the Bible existed in some form as an independent document before it found its way into the so-called Holy Book. Pieces of text written at different times circulated separately from each other. Later, some of these manuscripts were brought together into canons: agreed-upon sets of most sacred writings. Experts argued about which ones should be in and which ones should not. The canonization of the Hebrew Scriptures was left largely in the hands of Jewish scholars, while Christian authorities made decisions about the collection of writings that would become the New Testament.

    You said: Just because you don’t like what it says doesn’t give you the right to reject the portions you don’t agree with (the God proving parts) while embracing the historical parts (the archaeological finds).
    Yes it does, as an objective viewer knows how to look at things OBJECTIVELY to come to a conclusion about what can be verified, what can’t be, how it compares to simililarly aged documents, how it fits into historical contexts, and so on and so forth… What you need to realize is that just because you don’t like the facts and the scientific method doesn’t mean you can cram evidence and selectively throw out the rest just to try to verify a reality you wish to be!

    You said: Standard rules of debate put the burden of proof on you to disprove an established fact or concept.
    You haven’t established a fact, let alone a coherent concept… All you have is speculation that you have blown up into a religion based on nothing but a book written centuries ago, thrown together centuries ago, re-translated and rewritten centuries ago (as well as last week), and none of it proves anything except some of it pulled in from bits of facts and landmarks around it, as most authors writing anything do… Nothing more.

    You said: I already know that you can’t do it.
    There’s that “can do” attitude we all know and love! Listen, Stevie, you haven’t ESTABLISHED anything for me to DISPROVE! Find me a strand of DNA from God’s gray beard, get me a post card from heaven, whisk me away on a chariot of fire to the streets of gold! Until you can do any of that, you have nothing but your faith and some wishfully-stuffed into preconceived conclusions–not a scientific position in any way, shape, or form…

    You saidL I win this debate before I even “walk” into the room and open my mouth.
    Not really….

    You saidL Either embrace the work as a whole (and admit there is a God) or reject it as a whole (and get a bunch of archaeologist mad at you for calling them lairs).
    This is quite a false choice you’ve set up. Where does it say everything must be this way or that? There are always more than two sides to a story (more than three, even), and just as you can look at a tree from 360 degrees, you can look at the bible in as many different ways as there are people…

    My last words for you for the moment are “historical fiction.” That’s probably the best way for me to get across to you how a book that isn’t necessarily FACTUAL can still have archeological evidence to “support” those parts that are in fact based in history…

    You said: Now, as for God causing disasters, personally, I believe that he does not do this. Not yet anyway. He used to (Old Testament times) and He will again (Revelations era), but not at this time. I have no more evidence to back up my position than you do.
    Oh goodness… Are we going to start agreeing again? Just when things were getting fun? I’m wondering how you can admit a lack of evidence for all things god-like in the present day, but not realize it for the past you seem so keen on shoving into bible-molds?

    You said: Of all of us, Pax actually has the best evidence; The Bible which shows a God who will not hesitate to punish mankind when we do the wrong thing.
    This is opneing a whole new can of worms that we’re already having over on Memoirs of an Ex-Christian, so I suppose youcould go there to this post or this post to see my and others stances on the subject of a punishing, albeit supposedly good god…

  7. Steve says:

    Looks like we’re back to agreeing to disagree again.

  8. Jason says:

    And you claim I avoid the issues…

  9. Steve says:

    Sometimes we reach the point when it’s not worth the effort to continue a conversation. No matter how much evidence I give you, you are never doing to accept what I say. That’s your choice. Time to move on.

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